By Kyle Webb, Assistant Editor, See staff list for e-mail address
"Welcome back, my friends, to the show that never ends..."
Hi, folks, and welcome back to SHOWTIME! The AmiWest 98 show (http://www.sacc.org/amiwest/), held at the Ramada Inn in Sacramento, California, July 11 and 12, 1998, fell slightly short of events and guests (as outlined extensively not only here but in a highly organized carpet-bomb approach in many channels). I was assured that things went pretty darned good, at any rate, and I wish all the best to the organizers, participants, and businesses that put well-placed bets in the future of the Amiga, and of their related concerns.
You folks deserve a nice round of applause for all your hard work!
I didn't attend the show (I was in every major city on the NorthEast Coast of the United States and Canada, it seems, this past month) but I have with me here (by request, and with permission) some notes and writs from a few very gracious attendees. Regretfully, I don't have anything I could call comprehensive and all-inclusive (gee whiz, I wasn't home for weeks! PLUS....our main hardware here at The Amiga Monitor is being petulant: at the time of this writing, I am
SO, without further adieu, I give you the following:
AmiWest '98 Show Report From Jeffrey D. Webster
Needless to say, there were no overwhelming announcements. However, we did enjoy some exciting guests. I'll start from the beginning.
Upon arriving, after a miserable ordeal with the airline, I was greeted by Christopher Aldi (ClassAct, NewYork). We were waiting for a ride to the hotel. Bill Borsari (UGN Event Coordinator) picked us up. The madness began.
All of us were very high-strung, and excited about doing another show. All of us except Robert Hamilton (Lostman) who was sleeping in the hotel room.
Sleeping?
On Friday morning the setup was underway. I tested my machine from the hotel room, and then assisted Bill Borsari, Wayne Hunt (UGN), and Darreck Lisle (Amiga, Inc.) in setting up the UGN Booth. Not an easy task with 300 pound Destination monitors. There were some difficulties, like the fact that Darreck had to run 50 feet of phone cord out of the room and across a hall to get phone service to the booth.
The UGN, headed by Wayne Hunt, assisted by Darreck Lisle and Bill Borsari had a nice sized booth with one Destination Monitor showing the UGN Kiosk machine. Which was an A1200 running Scala. It was professionally done, and with a lot of help from Casey Halverson, it was even better. Connected with the UGN Booth was Lostman with his Amiga shirts, shorts, an sweaters.
Great looking clothes. We (the royal "We") shared a booth with Lostman, though we had no product thanks to a complete lack of luck during the days preceding the show (it's a sad story, perhaps another time). Instead, we were honored by having the UGN use ChatBox for the IRC conferences. Another Destination monitor showed the IRC conferences. Amiga, Inc. provided these monitors, by the way. They did not have to. And it was greatly appreciated. Good job Darreck.
Again, I have to give a hats-off to Bill Borsari. He dedicates his time to making these shows go off as smoothly as possible for the UGN. He has aided in keeping us well informed, and giving us a "WebCam's" view of the whole event. He is an asset to the Amiga community. Come to IRC channel #Amiga on servers linux.us.amiganet.org, or whiterose.us.amiganet.org and look for Bill to thank him for a great year of service. His IRC nickname is "tekmage".
On with the show.
To the immediate right of our booth was Nova Design. Kermit Woodall showed off the latest capabilities of ImageFX with the help and expertise of Corinna Cohn. She has amazing skills with ImageFX, and knows it like the back of her hand. I bought another copy of Aladdin 4D, as well as Catalyzer Volumes I & II. Big Spender, eh?
Chris Aldi showed off his line of products from Finale Developments. As well as "Digital Quill" by Timothy Ashton. Luck was not with Chris for this show, as his A3000 went on the blink. However, he did a great job in spite of it. He's been dedicated to the Amiga since the beginning.
Harv Laser was right next to Finale Developments. Was he wearing the coveted crown of the mighty "User Representative"? No, he was humbly dressed, greeting people as they passed, and enjoying lots of talk and stories. Of course, he was also promoting AmigaZone.
From the retail standpoint we had Lively Computers, and VisionSoft. They were far too busy for me to even get a look at what they had for any length of time. Both companies had great representatives that were friendly, and loved to talk shop. What a great place to be.
One of the most interesting conversations I had was with Bob Scharp. A very modest individual with an extremely kind wife. He has reason to brag, however, they've done a great job with the St. Louis show over the years. And I look forward to exhibiting there next year. At his display were the nicest coffee mugs an Amigan could ever see. They had a black checkmark on one side and a big black circle on the other side. Gee, sounds great, doesn't it? Well, pour some hot liquid in there -- I suggest coffee, myself -- and the checkmark becomes colored, and the large black circle becomes a smiling face. Bob told me, "This side shows a black check mark because the Amiga died, and this side shows a black circle because the Amiga died. Put a hot liquid in the cup, and the check mark becomes colorful, and the circle becomes a smiling face because the Amiga is alive again." Cheers, Bob! It was great meeting you.
One person that is always a joy to listen to because he is a virtual knowledge bank is Holger Kruse. He knows his stuff, and if you don't have Miami, GET IT! He has worked tirelessly to give us easy internet access, and he's done it with the greatest modesty. And his intentions are unbelievable. Did he do it for the money? Did he do it for the recognition? Why did he work so hard for so little? ($30 a copy is REAL cheap for a professional package like Miami) He did it for the Amiga, and it's users. At first we all questioned his intentions. Like, was he trying to take over what AmiTCP had given us?
Certainly, but without malice. He did it because the Amiga community needed an easy way to get on the internet. And, for those of you that criticize Miami -- because WinSock is "free" -- don't knock it until you try it. WinSock is "FREE" for a reason. That is about all it is worth. Miami is far more complete a TCP/IP stack than WinSock. Enjoy what you have. Thank you Holger.
Now, there were some things I just had to see. I wanted to see Carl Sassenraths seminar on REBOL (sounds like "rebel"). This man has an excellent sense of humor, and he's very down to earth. REBOL sounds like a very exciting language. I can't wait to implement a REBOL interface in some of our projects.
He described, in great detail, how REBOL really works, and what it's meant to do. He is so surprisingly Pro-Amiga. Dedicated to his creation, I suppose. Carl also spoke at the banquet dinner, where he showed slides from the very early days of Amiga. Included in the slides were pictures of the early MOS implementations of the Amiga Chipset. He had interesting stories about the trials of getting the Amiga to work. He shared many funny stories about events that took place at Amiga. RJ Mical blowing up fish in the microwave?
Human society, anyone? ;)
Of course, the event we had all been waiting for. Hearing Jeff Schindler speak about the Amiga. Oops. Something came up, so Jeff was unable to attend (I'll elaborate later). Well, at least now we have Dr. Allan Havemose...
Oops. You know the story. Big disappointment. But they more than made up for it. Frankly, everyone was pleasantly surprised by a man that very few know anything about -- besides his name. Bill McEwen was an outstanding speaker, great motivator, and despite his lack of techno-knowledge, an expert in this field. He should be trusted as a marketing director. He spoke very well, very clearly outlining the intentions and the road map for the Amiga.
Many questions were answered, without the usual thousand more that result from the answers. He covered his speech with good humor, and professionalism.
His speech was long, but by no means unbearable (aside from there being no air conditioner in that room). He should be commended and thanked warmly for making this unexpected trip to Sacramento to stand in for Jeff Schindler and Dr. Havemose. I was not at all disappointed, and left with even more confidence than before.
S.A.C.C. did a good job, this was their first show. There were some hitches here and there, but nothing insurmountable. And they worked hard to make it right, and extremely upset and disappointed when they couldn't.
Despite the sometimes flaring egos and tempers, we thank you S.A.C.C. for bring a show to the western half of the states! Special thanks should go to Michael Salcedo, John Zacharias, and Alan Crandall. Thank you for your understanding, patience, and help.
I'll be working with Bill Borsari and Casey Halverson on some exciting new projects for the MAE (Ohio) show in October. We have some great things for you internet show watchers. Keep your eyes peeled for press releases and news as the show gets closer.
Thanks for your attention.
Jeffrey D. Webster
Mirada Innovations / JDW Developments
VP, Software Development/Marketing
Subject: AmiWest Report (Part 2 of 3) The slide show From: jweb@prime*NO*net*SPAM*.com (Jeffrey D. Webster) Date: Thu, Jul 16, 1998 02:52 EDT Message-id: <750014271134@jweb.phx.primenet.com> Bill McEwen reveals the Amiga, Inc. plan from a marketing perspective. -- Although my first AmiWest report was well received, I know it was lacking the most important information. What did Amiga, Inc. have to say? More specifically, what happened to Schindler, Havemose, and McEwen? I'll start with Bill McEwen. I apologize for not posting this earlier, but I had to review the video tapes so that I could hit upon the highlights so as to avoid a long and drawn out post. Bill McEwen is definitely a professional in marketing. He understands the basic principles, and has a great deal of knowledge beyond those basics from experience. He knows things you simply cannot learn in school. On Saturday evening, July 11th, at the Banquet speech, Bill McEwen elaborated on the Amiga, Inc. plans from the marketing perspective. He had a clear outline of the path they'd like to take. I will not cover the entire presentation, only the new items. The news that we had all been waiting for was the revelation of the now infamous "MMC". I have no such news, because Mr. McEwen had no such news. He did, however, have the minimum acceptable specification for the "MMC". First the market statistics that motivate decisions in Amiga Marketing: Desktop OS Market 1997-1998 2000 (projected) ----------------------- Windows 95/98 69.4 65.0 Windows NT 9.2 26.2 DOS / Windows 3.x 7.7 .3 MacOS 4.6 1.9 Linux 2.4 4.2 DOS (no Windows) 2.3 .3 UNIX 1.0 .5 OS/2 Warp .8 1.2 *Other 2.7 .5 * Other includes BeOS and Amiga It is obvious that our target market cannot be the same target market as Microsoft's. And, according to Bill, the Amiga must do in 1999 what it did in 1985 -- it must hit the market with an attention getting *BANG* that makes folks think, "WOW! I have got to get me one of these!" The new Amiga must fall within these loose specification: Video & Sound * Real-time 3D rendering engine with 2D primitives * HDTV - Up to 1920x1080 * RGB, PAL & NTSC encodings * Multiple simultaneous MPEG-II decoding * Hardware filtering scaling, color space conversions, de-interlacing * Dolby AC-3 Multimedia / RISC System * Scalable through multiple multimedia processors (like the Classic Amiga) * 56k modem (minimum) * PCI Controller * Rich development environment - C++, Assembler, debugger, linker, etc. * Native Java VM ** CHIP SPECIFICATIONS *** * 400 million textured, bit-mapped pixels per second. With 24-bit per pixel, this corresponds to 1.2GB/s of output from the 3D engine. * Comparison: ECS Amiga has ~8M/sec max access to chip memory * A4000/A1200 systems hav maximum access of ~32M/sec to chip memory (Chip memory is where graphics and audio data resides) * 4 simultaneous MPEG-II decoders The path that Amiga, Inc. would like to follow is: [ Taken directly from the presentation slides ] * Gaming - Imagination is the only limitation for this platform [ This where the money is, and really what the vast majority of computer users want from their computers ] * Internet - Connected to people, entertainment & information [ Easy connection to internet. Complete integration ] * Digital Media and Broadcast - Digitized Realism - Expression of the imagination * Electronic Paradigm Shift - Digital appliances prolific - Consumer Electronics and Computers converging [ Other companies are trying this now, but all are going their own direction. Amiga can close this gap. ] Amiga Virtues: * Exec - best micro kernel in 1985 - STILL the best now - Fully Pre-emptive - For new systems we need: > Memory protection > Virtual memory > Multi-processor > Real-time [ Bill points out that these are the goals for the new system ] * Custom API's made the Amiga small, fast and efficient - Need OpenGL - Need Java - Need Internet - Need Convergence API's * I/O in Custom chips - Need 1394 and USB - Need ADSL or similar high-speed network connectivity * AutoConfig - PC's have "plug and pray" [ Although it sounds like a joke, the Amiga, despite it's lack of drivers is more truly plug and PLAY ] * Dynamically configurable localization - STILL the only game in town [ Bill commented that this is a very important issue to Dr. Havemose ] Other points of interest: McEwen stresses that the new Amiga has to stand out from the crowd. Pointing out that current PC options are intimidating, not easy to use, expensive, and are often obsolete shortly after their release. This causes a great burden on an already weary PC purchasing public. The goals they have set forth will lead to a personal computer where "personal" again has meaning. This has always been a strong point of the Amiga. McEwen mentions he's not from this camp [Amiga], but he sees a community. He stated in his presentation that, "Gateway didn't have this big plan for the Amiga. What they thought they had were patents and trademarks, they didn't know that all of you [the Amiga community] came with it." The room broke with laughter. Indeed, Gateway could not have expected such a resounding response from what was thought to be a dead platform. I believe they see us now, and not as a burden, but an asset. So, for those of you that have any doubts about their sincerity, give them a chance. Hear them out. I know you will be as surprised as I was by their dedication. All of the bulleted text above was taken from the slides during the presentation. Mr. McEwen promised the bulk of them will be posted on the Amiga, Inc. site. --- Now, on to the "issues" that seemed to infuriate so many in the Amiga community. What happened to Schindler? Did his wife give birth to a bouncing baby boy? Did Dr. Havemose deliver their child? Needless to say, these rumors were unfounded... and just plain silly. First, Dr. Havemose is not a medical doctor. Second, if Jeff's wife is pregnant, it's news to he and his wife. What happened to Dr. Havemose then? I'll answer that in one sentence: More contract negotiations required their further attention which distracted them from less pressing issues, like shows. I'd rather have them there working, than at a show playing. So, to clarify, Jeff Schindler and Allan Havemose were not able to attend AmiWest because they had Amiga business to attend to. ---- Thank you for your attention. Transcriptions of the speech will be posted as they are completed. Jeffrey D. Webster Mirada Innovations / JDW Developments VP, Software Development / Marketing
The following is a transcript of the irc.log sponsored by TeamAmiga, conducted by Gary Peake, who tirelessly brings the Amiga community an uninterrupted stream of Amiga news / press releases / items of interest, etc. Three individuals whom I would like to thank for making this month's SHOWTIME! possible include Jeffrey D. Webster, who supplied the reports above; Alan Crandall, Librarian for The Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group (and one of the Movers and Shakers of AmiWest '98), who tolerates my constant inquiries and graciously responds without fail; and Gary Peake, of TeamAmiga, a pivotal individual in the Amiga news realm. Many thanks to those, and many unmentioned, individuals, without whose efforts there would be no report in this issue.
«Log» Logging of this window started to file PROGDIR:Logs/CH_amiwestta at 10-Jul-98 21:18:08. --> You have joined channel #amiwestta. «Topic» Topic for channel #amiwestta is show not opened, try #amiwest98 meanwhile !! «Topic» Topic for channel #amiwestta has been set by VideoTeck on 08:38:02 10-07-1998 «Names» Users on #amiwestta: AmiWest Rebbi Jojon Dave_C Ratleto Ingo Riley Satyre Zonkk jpawluk Setar Myste Ginko Skalle portnoy @Mitchman Puwaha RazMATTaz @VideoTeck «Names» End of /NAMES list. «Mode» Current modes for #amiwestta: topic protection, no messaging «Mode» Channel #amiwestta was created on 08:20:16 10-07-1998Yes! There's Alan Hi Alan Where's Gary and Scott? there's gary «OP» VideoTeck gives channel operator status to AmiWest (and commando) where? Casey... speak up! right now, Carl Sassanrath is holding a seminar about REBOL. I have yet to hear from Gary about who's echo'ing what where and were the source net is I'vwe already got 4 instances of AMiRc up >dave_c< we are feeding amiganet.org for right now. I am also going to join on beyong «Topic» VideoTeck sets topic to Show is online !! * Rebbi says "Yippee!" *Dave_C* I have #AMiWest98 from amiganet echo'ed to #Team*AMiGA on beyond. *Dave_C* Godsmith has had a net problem... --> swalton (~swalton@plage.sfo.csun.edu) has joined this channel. *Dave_C* someone killed their net this AM.. *Dave_C* attacked thru the bots «CTCP» Got VERSION request from Puwaha. Carl sassenrath is giving a quick synopsis of Rebol to a crowd of amiga users here at Amiwest --> Skyclad (Yes@mp-211-206.daxnet.no) has joined this channel. --> Lizard (lizard@poort107-ip-x2.enertel.cybercomm.nl) has joined this channel. --> AAlley (cthomps1@dt032ncf.san.rr.com) has joined this channel. Rebol appears to be a well implemented language, very simple from the slides he is showing. --> CyborJim (jimvideo@206.155.34.62) has joined this channel. --> dwc (donc@animal.blarg.net) has joined this channel. --> Zimba (~mim3@ppp43-10.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de) has joined this channel. --> BamBam (orhan@orhan.franken.de) has joined this channel. Carl is actually giving examples of Rebol language sequence. The amiga users here are captivated by how easy Rebol seems to be in operation. So is Rebol a "language"? --> TransWarp (~rutter@RAS04-013.UNI-MUENSTER.DE) has joined this channel. <-- CyborJim (jimvideo@206.155.34.62) has left this channel. --> CyborJim (jimvideo@206.155.34.62) has joined this channel. puwaha: yes... very much like a meld of REXX and FORTH but w/ the RPN Surf to http://www.rebol.com/ to learn more about Rebol. Dave_c correct I know... I'm s tester So it's like Java, eh? NO... eg; save %filename read http://some.web.address/filename that will d/l a file (not binary yet) and save to your local drive much easier than java I thought this channel was to be voice only for AmiWest reporters? ftp:// is available too. --> unclesam (~unclesam@usr-boi-31.rmci.net) has joined this channel. al right... Rebol, pronounced like "Rebel" is similar in function to arexx, but has more extensions. I';ll shut up... alan: go ahead an hit moderated >mitchman< should we voice only or leave as is? «Mode» AmiWest changes channel modes to moderated *Dave_C* someone needs to echo this over to beyond Rebol is client based, portable and machine independant. --> RonniIRC (ronni@194.231.205.69) has joined this channel. --> NorthWay (bnost@ti15a02-0022.dialup.online.no) has joined this channel. <-- TransWarp (~rutter@RAS04-013.UNI-MUENSTER.DE) has left this channel. >Dave_c< are you going to echo it? --> corsa (corsa@coltrane.ispi.net) has joined this channel. *Dave_C* I already have one going... *Dave_C* amiwest98->team*amiga >Dave_c< this is commando ... i was going to code an arexx script, but if you already have one going, then thats fine >Dave_c< because i could just type it into a window, and it would go out to all nets directly *Dave_C* It's only one way --> Lorus (935268@207.210.101.233) has joined this channel. «CTCP» Got USERINFO request from unclesam. >Dave_C< it would probably be much cleaner in operation ... make the information more direct. --> Volmer (volmer@130.228.36.65) has joined this channel. this is a test *VideoTeck* Are you the only one to keep up this channel ? if so you better talk alot or maye dont moderate it just yet ? Just asking :) --> ac-einst (schimmer@pppa105.hildesheim.sgh-net.de) has joined this channel. --> Algotz (Ulf@195.100.93.71) has joined this channel. Carl is talking about how by using only variables Rebol can go ouut and build a complete web page. «Quit» Algotz (Ulf@195.100.93.71) has signed off (Switching server). *Dave_C* If you wanna whip that up... go ahead... *Dave_C* my script is tiny and only of use in one channel... «Quit» jpawluk (jaojoby@ppp-207-214-183-125.rvsd01.pacbell.net) has signed off (Read error to jpawluk[ppp-207-214-183-125.rvsd01.pacbell.net]: Connection reset by peer). --> jpawluk (jaojoby@ppp-207-214-183-125.rvsd01.pacbell.net) has joined this channel. *Dave_C* Mine's real simple... *Dave_C* goes in any msg event and parses nick and msg --> AndersB (~pl951579@knox.pace.edu) has joined this channel. *Dave_C* then redirects to a differnet amirc He put a slide up of different op systems that Rebol would work on, the top of the list was Amiga. One of the audience asked if hois list was alpha or just coincidence. Everyone laughed *Dave_C* seems to be working He just recently added M$ to that list ... :) >Dave_C< (from commando) yea, quick arexx script «Quit» dwc (donc@animal.blarg.net) has signed off (Leaving). «Quit» ac-einst (schimmer@pppa105.hildesheim.sgh-net.de) has signed off (Read error to ac-einst[pppa105.hildesheim.sgh-net.de]: Connection reset by peer). Carl is talking about different datatypes REBOL supports. simple datatypes are: none, logic (true/false), integer, Decimal, Fractions, Quads, Times, etc. «Quit» Lizard (lizard@poort107-ip-x2.enertel.cybercomm.nl) has signed off (ShutDown ()). there are several types of string datatypes. string (text), binary, issue, email, file, or URL --> ac-einst (schimmer@pppa105.hildesheim.sgh-net.de) has joined this channel. he wants to express phone and visa numbers, etc. but they are too systematic for now ... but Issue will cover this type of data type for now Next is Aggregate Datatypes you have blocks, parens, lists, herds, and paths.. *Dave_C* Do we have webcams up yet? all relate to link lists. >Dave_C< we are waiting for the guy to come WITH the camera. >Dave_C< and the toccata board for me to do news breifs with.. *Dave_C* alan has one sort of like arrays. *Dave_C* I thought he was gonna use his along with godsmith's and another. --> m3x (massitre@195.103.38.55) has joined this channel. >Dave_C< i am told later tonight... «Quit» swalton (~swalton@plage.sfo.csun.edu) has signed off (Leaving). *Dave_C* ok >Dave_C< i would have brought up my iv24 webcam from home, but transporting the card is a pain in the ass. >Dave_C< but as soon as the webcam comes in, ill code any software that is needed, and get it online. *Dave_C* godsmith is on #CNet now... *Dave_C* I told him you were waiting *Dave_C* I have a ride this evening «Quit» Rebbi (Prebbi@mnet01-71.austin.texas.net) has signed off (I'm off to play Final Odyssey, now...). (we are still here, carl has went into depth on some of the datatypes) *Dave_C* taking beyond channel moderated next... --> Johan (VidamusMul@du154-7.ppp.algonet.se) has joined this channel. Operational DAtatypes Function ... uses a function that is a function its self for making it shorthand next ... --> Cryto (Cryto@pb86.softmax.softronics.com) has joined this channel. Object >Dave_C< can you please give me voice?!?!?!?! --> dwc (donc@animal.blarg.net) has joined this channel. >Dave_C< irc.snowhill.com *Dave_C* oops thanks .. heheh anyway, as i was reporting .. ;-) Operationa datatypes Function -- uses a function that is a function its self, but for making it shorthand OBject.. allows you to assemble a common name for font prefs, etc. Carl now has a joke program for us, 99 bottles of beer on the wall .. it is a REBOL program --> RAG (RAG@130.244.98.249) has joined this channel. --> Bud[WOW] (keyzers@keyzers.sci.kun.nl) has joined this channel. however, this program (99 bottles of beer on the wall) is very complex to properly compile the song. many language conventions are used. <-- Cryto (Cryto@pb86.softmax.softronics.com) has left this channel. This is not for beginners (as quoted from carl) *Dave_C* doesn't sound too hard to me... hehehehe <-- Bud[WOW] (keyzers@keyzers.sci.kun.nl) has left this channel. many language conventions are used. (oops) *Dave_C* a counter and an array of the rest of the lyrics --> Womble (~womble@max165.public.ox.ac.uk) has joined this channel. *Dave_C* what nets are you ffeding now.... carl says that he has (in REBOL) one of the smallest "99 bottles" programs ... being that it has been ported to 100s of languages --> Jkay_ (Jkay@cx32840-a.mrdn1.ct.home.com) has joined this channel. The Rebol product line: REBOL/Share -- free download no timeouts, etc. REBOL/Core -- Registered REBOL/Pro -- Product REBOL/MEdia -- Free Download REBOL/Author -- PRoduct (www.rebol.com) --> Danny6 (keyzers@keyzers.sci.kun.nl) has joined this channel. he says that 99% of developers will do the free download also, there are multimedia versions of REBOL, which is the Media version. down the road though, not initially released. --> Caster (Caster@p13-210.province.worldnet.fr) has joined this channel. he says that REBOL will become attractive and may cause a movement because it is not platform dependent. REBOL/Author is sort of an authoring system... he says he has had this concept in his head for quite a while.. There are also job openings!! hiring over 22 people over the next years... programmers, support, etc. Carl just posted a HUGE rebol program on the overhead.. The biggest program in REBOL so far --> Pseudo (Pseudo@ppp85.rhwd.owl.de) has joined this channel. (quote) --> CyborgJim (jimvideo@206.155.34.45) has joined this channel. Carl is explaining the complex program... appears to be the mailing list software --> WazNew (~USA@208.128.111.234) has joined this channel. «Quit» Lorus (935268@207.210.101.233) has signed off (Write error to Lorus[207.210.101.233], closing link). --> MX (mxprodz@du37-156.ppp.algonet.se) has joined this channel. this program fits on many slides with a really small font. --> GodSmith (sdsmith@sjas-20-1-7.sj.bigger.net) has joined this channel. slides = transparancies --> Gamenfo (gamenfo@ts001d01.bat-la.concentric.net) has joined this channel. --> sudog (~root@209.53.23.224) has joined this channel. --> swalton (~swalton@plage.sfo.csun.edu) has joined this channel. --> LowLevel (ealtavil@ppp58-pa3.neomedia.it) has joined this channel. --> Hawker (vlangber@mp-210-68.daxnet.no) has joined this channel. It is now Q and A time. in the room.. the question: how intercompatible are the variable data types.. <-- Gamenfo (gamenfo@ts001d01.bat-la.concentric.net) has left this channel. «Quit» BamBam (orhan@orhan.franken.de) has signed off (Demo timeout). --> jalvarez (jalvarez@207.205.242.193) has joined this channel. the answer: we thought a lot about this, and we have decided that if you really want to do that, you can write a function. but we decided to have it signal an error. «Quit» unclesam (~unclesam@usr-boi-31.rmci.net) has signed off (Demo timeout). <-- jpawluk (jaojoby@ppp-207-214-183-125.rvsd01.pacbell.net) has left this channel. «Quit» swalton (~swalton@plage.sfo.csun.edu) has signed off (Leaving). <-- MX (mxprodz@du37-156.ppp.algonet.se) has left this channel. --> BamBam (orhan@orhan.franken.de) has joined this channel. the next question is refering to math accuracy, etc. --> Macaroni (tonerose@dyn-dtC0f.foobar.co.uk) has joined this channel. as in handling nuclear power plants.. carl says that such accuracy will be down the road. he wants REBOL to be both external and internal. so REBOL scripts handle REBOL scripts, etc. «Quit» CyborJim (jimvideo@206.155.34.62) has signed off (Ping timeout for CyborJim[206.155.34.62]). Carl says there is food and beer in room 401 ;-) lucky you :) *ops sorry* «Quit» Ginko (p_spence@tpafx1-26.gate.net) has signed off (Ping timeout for Ginko[tpafx1-26.gate.net]). --> MX (mxprodz@195.100.156.37) has joined this channel. «Quit» Johan (VidamusMul@du154-7.ppp.algonet.se) has signed off (Client exiting). Carl says one of his business cards has a misprinted date, and is worth a price. someone had it, and won a free REBOL t-shirt. Someone asked how cheap REBOL was compared to other products... he says that it will be cheaper to develop then JAVA .. «Quit» Macaroni (tonerose@dyn-dtC0f.foobar.co.uk) has signed off (Leaving). Carl doesn't want to have royalty fees for other developments of REBOL interpreters. «Netsplit» Netsplit detected between servers thule.no.amiganet.org and whiterose.us.amiganet.org. «Netsplit» Users gone due to netsplit: portnoy Blotto Kar^BBL ActiveLow Jkay_ Joker Dave_C jpawluk AndersB NAN Foobar RazMATTaz REBOL can be dynamically compiled... and if you are careful, it can be compiled as C. «Quit» Womble (~womble@max165.public.ox.ac.uk) has signed off (Changing servers). Mention of FORTH has been brought up in a question Carl was the president of a FORTH company in the early 1980's he says. It looks like FORTH, but it handles different internally <-- LowLevel (ealtavil@ppp58-pa3.neomedia.it) has left this channel. mentioning of intercommunication in REBOL ... it is very doable. Carl has now concluded the seminar. We are now asking him to come to IRC for question and answer. «Netsplit» Netsplit detected between servers thule.no.amiganet.org and linux.us.amiganet.org. «Netsplit» Users gone due to netsplit: corsa AmiWest98 donna- Cryto AAlley sudog newlook dwc CyborgJim nameless2 fleg «Nick» Pseudo is now known as Psycho. --> Draco (draco@pc83044.stofanet.dk) has joined this channel. --> AndersB (~pl951579@knox.pace.edu) has joined this channel. --> Jkay_ (Jkay@cx32840-a.mrdn1.ct.home.com) has joined this channel. --> Macaroni (tonerose@dyn-dtC0f.foobar.co.uk) has joined this channel. --> BigBeard (~amiga@130.238.246.2) has joined this channel. «Quit» Zonkk (amiga@196.25.82.11) has signed off (Leaving). --> PUNA (waipuna@max1-200.mainnet.net) has joined this channel. «Quit» AndersB (~pl951579@knox.pace.edu) has signed off (Write error to AndersB[knox.pace.edu], closing link). Carl is currently talking to a few people ... we will get him after he is thru. --> JPedro (~pedro@sigma-systems.no) has joined this channel. --> AndersB (~pl951579@knox.pace.edu) has joined this channel. --> sudog (~root@209.53.23.224) has joined this channel. --> Womble (~womble@max165.public.ox.ac.uk) has joined this channel. «Quit» Caster (Caster@p13-210.province.worldnet.fr) has signed off (Le fantôme va hanter un autre lieu). «Nick» Jkay_ is now known as Jkay. --> Lorus (935268@207.210.101.233) has joined this channel. --> dwc (donc@animal.blarg.net) has joined this channel. <-- Zimba (~mim3@ppp43-10.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de) has left this channel. --> DeepSpace (ask@Rad1.26.Hpu.Edu) has joined this channel. «Quit» JPedro (~pedro@sigma-systems.no) has signed off (Love God, Love Life, Lovesexy! Peace & B WILD!). --> JoeMango (joe.mango@pm3-pt35.pcnet.net) has joined this channel. --> AAlley (cthomps1@204.210.21.207) has joined this channel. «Nick» DeepSpace is now known as AmigaMMC. <-- dwc (donc@animal.blarg.net) has left this channel. «Nick» Psycho is now known as Pseudo. --> hannu (root@195.16.193.154) has joined this channel. Carl says, he will be back in a few minutes for that. «Quit» hannu (root@195.16.193.154) has signed off (Switching server). --> hannu (root@195.16.193.154) has joined this channel. --> aTmosh (atmosh@131.211.124.41) has joined this channel. <-- BamBam (orhan@orhan.franken.de) has left this channel. Before we go to Carl, we will now go to Bill McEwen, from Amiga Inc. Bill is telling a story of how he got where he is today.. Bumblebee Software ... he started with .. --> portnoy (jkl@208.207.98.93) has joined this channel. They were eventually bought out .. become GenSoft. Purchaced by Computer Associates From there, he moved to ConnectSoft. One of the first companies to move into the internet. with EmailConnection software --> Zimba (~mim3@ppp43-10.hrz.uni-bielefeld.de) has joined this channel. they coordinated multiple internet providers for wide service. the first company to intergrate email, etc. into a web browser... from there, he went to MCI ... NetworkMCI ... --> Elfe2 (Maja@maja.oche.de) has joined this channel. While this was going on, MCI was talking to microsoft.. MS also announced that they had a universal email client.. --> P-Gary (parlan@195.100.244.54) has joined this channel. --> jcompton (jcompton@jcompton.xnet.com) has joined this channel. his software was dropped by multiple companies.. --> JohanE (~joher872@130.236.186.15) has joined this channel. This is how he met Jeff S... --> BetongApe (~balder@he010.hellerud.vgs.no) has joined this channel. creating email software for kids to use. --> Phongo (n210033041@t2o207p2.telia.com) has joined this channel. --> LowLevel (ealtavil@ppp36-pa3.neomedia.it) has joined this channel. When he left, the company had many great products... --> ActiveLow (activelow@win95.zellerzone.com) has joined this channel. «Quit» Skyclad (Yes@mp-211-206.daxnet.no) has signed off (Ping timeout for Skyclad[mp-211-206.daxnet.no]). they finally went bankrupt, due to microsoft's business practices. Jeff S. then had him look at the amiga .. --> speedfly (stripe@user-38ldbo7.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined this channel. see what can be done.. and use 3rd parties to help, etc. to get it where it should be. --> frotz (~Frotz@s5-14.ppp.op.net) has joined this channel. he has 3 kids ... --> GtR^fLE (GhostRider@130.244.105.37) has joined this channel. (we will now switch to carl S) «Quit» hannu (root@195.16.193.154) has signed off (Ping timeout for hannu[195.16.193.154]). «Nick» GtR^fLE is now known as Ghost. >mitchman< can you moderate for Carl <-- speedfly (stripe@user-38ldbo7.dialup.mindspring.com) has left this channel. --> fleg (sponsfor@ip60-218.cap.primenet.com) has joined this channel. --> Skyclad (Yes@mp-38-15.daxnet.no) has joined this channel. --> Gamenfo (gamenfo@ts001d01.bat-la.concentric.net) has joined this channel. «CTCP» Got PING request from Ghost. Hello All. REBOL Rocks! --> Dobro (tvdmerwe@bd212.westbrabant.net) has joined this channel. Great to be back here typing on an Amiga... rather than one of those ugly other OSes. «Nick» You are now known as Carl. --> SteveK (~sekruege@user-38ld83f.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined this channel. --> zeg (express@ns1115.munich.netsurf.de) has joined this channel. «Quit» Phongo (n210033041@t2o207p2.telia.com) has signed off (Damn - I REALLY got to register this AmIRC thing). --> mlelstv2 (mlelstv@62.132.0.19) has joined this channel. <-- RonniIRC (ronni@194.231.205.69) has left this channel. *Mitchman* yes *VideoTeck* if anyone have q maybe we should unmoderate it ? amiwest ? --> Lizard (lizard@poort9-ip-x2.enertel.cybercomm.nl) has joined this channel. --> echo_ta (davecook@host229.internettport.net) has joined this channel. >dave_c< moderate Q&A! «Error» dave_c: No such nick «Quit» BigBeard (~amiga@130.238.246.2) has signed off (Client exiting). «Mode» Carl changes channel modes to not moderated <-- Ingo (acim1303@195.80.196.85) has left this channel. --> Eric_75 (giguere1@ppp-98-131.villette.club-internet.fr) has joined this channel. Carl: Would you like a question queue? hey Carl what computer do u do your work on? Let's go unmoderated.... never liked that anyway... Carl: tell us all the news.. :) ok lol --> TransWarp (~rutter@RAS04-013.UNI-MUENSTER.DE) has joined this channel. Carl: you're addressing multiple nets atm... damn the NDA! we want info ! :) hahahah sorry --> Sabbo (Seb@ueo.interlog.com) has joined this channel. Which computer? Geeze... you don't want to know. I'm about ready to toss it out the window. heh Carl: Will REBOL be a part of OS4? --> scuz (scuz@diala061.ppp.lrz-muenchen.de) has joined this channel. I've tried everything to like it... but it just sucks. --> BigBeard (~amiga@130.238.246.13) has joined this channel. ZX81 are useless, the 16k expansion keeps dropping off :) *jcompton* Hi Carl. Nice picture of you in the Chicago Tribune Silicon Prairie. sucks is not very technical, but to the point;) --> Phongo (n210033041@t7o207p40.telia.com) has joined this channel. yeah and oncew you peel off the keyboard you're stuck :) aTmosh: not the one I was using in '83, it fit really well. I thought it would be a good idea to try to use it... but that's best left to other people. atmosh: I used Velco to keep the 16K from wiggling «Quit» Volmer (volmer@130.228.36.65) has signed off (Ping timeout for Volmer[130.228.36.65]). please folks... we have Carl S here. Keep the off topic stuff in /msg --> laire (laire@sol.owl.de) has joined this channel. Ok, it was a joke, forget the ZX81 :) Thanks Jason. Haven't seen it yet. Hows the article? how many ppl are working on the os? Carl: Do you find it difficult to explain REBOL to the masses? --> newlook (~newlook@dyn1-tnt14-174.detroit.mi.ameritech.net) has joined this channel. --> RazMATTaz (msawyer@netcom18.netcom.com) has joined this channel. *jcompton* Well, I was privately messaging you, but... --> Ingo (acim1303@195.80.196.85) has joined this channel. --> sasc (jweb@ip193.sac.primenet.com) has joined this channel. --> Nadir (e97_nbeE@sl39.modempool.kth.se) has joined this channel. Carl:If I wanted to read more about Rebol, like examples etc, where do I go. The www.Rebol.com doesn't seem to have that. (I was talking to Carl about his picture in the latest Chicago Tribune Silicon Prairie, which has a super-positive article on the Amiga in it. Carl has a nice portrait in it.) I haven't read the article in great depth but what I have read is very positive and about as accurate as any non-Amigan has ever been in coverage. AAlley... the masses don't need to understand it. You do. The grassroots does. The rest will come. MS has proven that. carl: Are you talking with AI or do AI talk to you about rebol and possible integration in OS4 or maybe 5 ? --> Crab (~crab@pm30-47.image.dk) has joined this channel. when do us alpha testers get updates? ;) Carl: from what I have understood there will be a shareware version of REBOL to download from the REBOL homepage? (if this is correct, when will this be?) I've had talks with AI. Still open issue. SO Carl, how easy is REBOL to use/learn, for someone like me that dont really program at all? ^^ from Cryto Carl: M$ have proven that sinking billions into marketing to the clueless masses pays «Quit» TransWarp (~rutter@RAS04-013.UNI-MUENSTER.DE) has signed off (Ping timeout for TransWarp[RAS04-013.UNI-MUENSTER.DE]). Yes. The primary version of REBOL will be shareware, but with no hooks or timeouts. I expect 98% of the world to use this version. «Quit» Puwaha (lstiles@204.194.173.206) has signed off (It's been real, it's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun!). --> kos (~froilan@BLACKCOMB.WEH.ANDREW.CMU.EDU) has joined this channel. A portion of the Chicago Tribune article is at chicago.tribune.com/go/siliconprairie. --> TransWarp (~rutter@RAS0161.UNI-MUENSTER.DE) has joined this channel. «Quit» AndersB (~pl951579@knox.pace.edu) has signed off (Demo timeout). --> RonniIRC (ronni@194.231.205.69) has joined this channel. Carl: u want Oprah money;) Where can you get REBOL? Nowhere as of yet. Still a few more months. But, a prebeta will be available soon for testing... but only for technical folks who enjoy testing deep semantics. After that, a beta will appear. --> Volmer (volmer@msx-1a-1-7.1033.cybercity.dk) has joined this channel. Carl: good, I was beginning to think you forgot about us hehe --> jpawluk (jaojoby@ppp-207-214-183-125.rvsd01.pacbell.net) has joined this channel. If it's anything as nice as the early alphas I tested, it's gonna KILL! Carl: an ETA for the prebeta, and who can get it? «Quit» Sabbo (Seb@ueo.interlog.com) has signed off (Client exiting). Carl:Is there some place I read about the language? As in examples? newlook: Never would forget. echo_ta: it's really easy to use rebol. You could write an email client in under 10 minutes :) newlook:no kidding..?! Carl: good to hear :) Ratleto: no joke :) newlook:whow The ETA for Prebeta is (was) July 15. But, I'm not yet sure we'll make it by then. And, it's a very narrow test version for kernel testing. --> AndersB (~pl951579@knox.pace.edu) has joined this channel. --> EricGir (EricGir@ppp181.232.mmtl.videotron.net) has joined this channel. rebol is crossplatform then carl: seeing your place in amiga history, is AI taking your input on the development of 4.0/5.0 or do you have better things to worry about? Perhaps we should get back to Bill McEwen... since he's answering questions about Amiga and its future... and perhaps you all have a few questions, dont' you? yes. «Quit» NorthWay (bnost@ti15a02-0022.dialup.online.no) has signed off (Read error to NorthWay[ti15a02-0022.dialup.online.no]: Connection reset by peer). a few (1,000,000 ) Ok... I'll be around the next few days... and will stop in on IRC as usual. thanks carl Great to be back on the channel. thanks Carl. great Carl: thanks for the update :) Keep rebelling. -Carl good luck Carl «Nick» You are now known as amiwest. * newlook will watch his mailbox ;) (carl heads back to the shack) Will there be another OS upgrade for "legacy" Amigas? We will.. «Nick» You are now known as ta. is Bill still at the podium? --> NorthWay (bnost@ti15a02-0022.dialup.online.no) has joined this channel. I want Dr. Allan Havelåge to come in here and speak ;-) *Blast* hi ta *Blast* remember me ? :) He's not there Havemose? he's backed out of the show volmer: he's not at the show couldn't take the heat eh? :) Ofcourse not.. That would be Havemose 8) «Nick» You are now known as amiwest. But anyway.. We didn't he show up? Bill Mcewen i sanswewring question s from the group here. amiwest: anything about the kernel ? Says that Allan Havemose wants and will have an open architecture. amiwest:when will we know the details about the next Amiga? --> CyborJim (jimvideo@206.155.34.59) has joined this channel. How many people are doing the OS coding? amiwest: You tell us... «Quit» Ghost (GhostRider@130.244.105.37) has signed off (Ping timeout for Ghost[130.244.105.37]). 2 :) Allan has people working with him in San Jose. We are also looking for an os partner. We thoought it would be done, but is not yet decided. «Mode» VideoTeck changes channel modes to moderated AI is looking at a wide marketing module, not niche markets. --> Spooky (davec@t00-08.antw.online.be) has joined this channel. AI is looking at a wide marketing module, not niche markets. *CyborJim* In an annoucement in Amazing Computing Amiga Inc was looking for an OS "partner". Any word on this? --> Ty (Default@s37.nextdim.com) has joined this channel. --> Tom-- (IRcap.4@195.55.156.184) has joined this channel. We already have large consumer elctronics companies talking and we are in the second and third rounds. This has got to be as revolutionary as it was in 1985. «Quit» m3x (massitre@195.103.38.55) has signed off (Client exiting). This takes lots of money, fortunately we have a nice checkbook called Gateay. I have lots of people calling me looking for a replacement OS. 7 of the largest 10 have called me looking. --> Manowar2 (ppcamiga@kad-a5-05-asy19.kad-ro-02.superonline.com) has joined this channel. 7 of the largest 10 consumer electronics companies have called me. <-- Elfe2 (Maja@maja.oche.de) has left this channel. --> NdK (NdK@Cable43.LC10.eneco.bart.nl) has joined this channel. --> KarlosI (pkarlos@ppp0071.connect.ab.ca) has joined this channel. <-- newlook (~newlook@dyn1-tnt14-174.detroit.mi.ameritech.net) has left this channel. «CTCP» Got PING request from Jkay. --> XT600 (~glenn@193.13.228.155) has joined this channel. Bill is talking about things like Link Pad, and other things past. *echo_ta* Uhm, like, whom? (Or can you say?) --> Heli (steger@ppp26-bk.dnet.it) has joined this channel. --> kakace (kakace@194.51.39.100) has joined this channel. <-- LowLevel (ealtavil@ppp36-pa3.neomedia.it) has left this channel. --> LowLevel (ealtavil@ppp36-pa3.neomedia.it) has joined this channel. «Quit» Volmer (volmer@msx-1a-1-7.1033.cybercity.dk) has signed off (Read error to Volmer[msx-1a-1-7.1033.cybercity.dk]: Connection reset by peer). «Quit» Tom-- (IRcap.4@195.55.156.184) has signed off (···· I R c a p ··http://ircap.home.ml.org ···). There are a lot of OSes out there, but NONE of them have the gfx capabiliyties that we can have with the new Amiga. --> dwc (donc@animal.blarg.net) has joined this channel. There are ONLY 3 canbdidates now as far as who the OS partner will be. --> hannu (root@195.16.193.161) has joined this channel. «Quit» PUNA (waipuna@max1-200.mainnet.net) has signed off (Client exiting). «Quit» fleg (sponsfor@ip60-218.cap.primenet.com) has signed off (Ping timeout for fleg[ip60-218.cap.primenet.com]). «Quit» Jojon (jojon@130.244.86.111) has signed off (Write error to Jojon[130.244.86.111], closing link). --> fleg (sponsfor@ip60-194.cap.primenet.com) has joined this channel. «Quit» portnoy (jkl@208.207.98.93) has signed off (9 out of 10 voices in my head say "Go back to bed"). Bill is carrying 3 presentations with him because there are negotiations going on right now with possible partners. When the phone rings, any of these three thing scould be possible. That is why AI is holding until they have CONCRETE info. --> danm (danm@195.67.243.86) has joined this channel. --> Volmer (volmer@msx-0c-1-10.1033.cybercity.dk) has joined this channel. «Quit» sudog (~root@209.53.23.224) has signed off (ciao). Bill is saying that even at WOA London, negotiations went until 2 am with one partner that caused Ai to withhold info until they had CONCRETE info. Can we still program tothe hardware? Yes, Allan Havemnose wants that ability for developers. «Quit» sasc (jweb@ip193.sac.primenet.com) has signed off (Ping timeout for sasc[ip193.sac.primenet.com]). «Quit» Nadir (e97_nbeE@sl39.modempool.kth.se) has signed off (Demo timeout). --> Joker (Joker@gatezh5-83.access.ch) has joined this channel. It will be object oriented OS anyways so hardware is no problem. «Quit» MX (mxprodz@195.100.156.37) has signed off (Ping timeout for MX[195.100.156.37]). «Quit» WazNew (~USA@208.128.111.234) has signed off (Didn't I say I wasn't into this chitty chatty thingie ing ?). «Quit» Volmer (volmer@msx-0c-1-10.1033.cybercity.dk) has signed off (Read error to Volmer[msx-0c-1-10.1033.cybercity.dk]: Connection reset by peer). --> Merko (merko@193.10.244.156) has joined this channel. Have the delays with the negotiations caused a delay in the 1998 goal in november with developer system ... andswer NO! --> Nadir (e97_nbeE@sl39.modempool.kth.se) has joined this channel. --> MiMe (mmerkel@ppp77.rz.uni-mannheim.de) has joined this channel. --> Volmer (volmer@msx-0e-2-4.1033.cybercity.dk) has joined this channel. Allan is working on the upper layer while also conducting negotiations along with fleecy moss and others. --> Barlog (root@dialin-150.icon-stl.net) has joined this channel. *echo_ta* Casey: You still there? --> Bommel (~bommel@mcn-r1.misc.htwm.de) has joined this channel. <-- JoeMango (joe.mango@pm3-pt35.pcnet.net) has left this channel. this is gary casey is here too. --> BitBucket (103656.613@ad37-233.arl.compuserve.com) has joined this channel. *KarlosI* hey gary, lemme know when your not busy I need to ask you a few questions about the ICOA election!! --> szbinden (~szbinden@130.125.11.76) has joined this channel. «Quit» TransWarp (~rutter@RAS0161.UNI-MUENSTER.DE) has signed off (Ping timeout for TransWarp[RAS0161.UNI-MUENSTER.DE]). What is AI doing about shortages of inventory? «Quit» Phongo (n210033041@t7o207p40.telia.com) has signed off (Ping timeout for Phongo[t7o207p40.telia.com]). Petro is away working to secure as many outside sources as possible. Moto is shutting down the 68000 line and will not restart for us. --> yooper (lmcgahey@tc02-45.kz.net-link.net) has joined this channel. What about ARos or PPC? --> PerGunnar (PerGunnar@195.100.248.15) has joined this channel. Has AROS been told by AI to stop work ... NO. «Quit» Jkay (Jkay@cx32840-a.mrdn1.ct.home.com) has signed off (Read error to Jkay[cx32840-a.mrdn1.ct.home.com]: Connection reset by peer). --> Jaojoby (jaojoby@ppp-207-214-183-125.rvsd01.pacbell.net) has joined this channel. --> HammerD2 (develand@cr443611-a.glph1.on.wave.home.com) has joined this channel. --> Jkay (Jkay@cx32840-a.mrdn1.ct.home.com) has joined this channel. «Quit» jpawluk (jaojoby@ppp-207-214-183-125.rvsd01.pacbell.net) has signed off (Read error to jpawluk[ppp-207-214-183-125.rvsd01.pacbell.net]: Connection reset by peer). What will AI do about quickpak going out of business? --> KarlosII (pkarlos@ppp0071.connect.ab.ca) has joined this channel. «Quit» KarlosI (pkarlos@ppp0071.connect.ab.ca) has signed off (Read error to KarlosI[ppp0071.connect.ab.ca]: Connection reset by peer). <-- KarlosII (pkarlos@ppp0071.connect.ab.ca) has left this channel. *echo_ta* effnet amiwestta is now unmoderated. That is between Hembach, and Quickpak. Not AI. --> Stevey_P (nobody@lon4-19.ukonline.co.uk) has joined this channel. --> _ego (eoghann@dip-195-74-66-79.thenet.co.uk) has joined this channel. --> KarlosII (pkarlos@ppp0071.connect.ab.ca) has joined this channel. test «Nick» KarlosII is now known as KarlosI. «Quit» AndersB (~pl951579@knox.pace.edu) has signed off (Demo timeout). <-- szbinden (~szbinden@130.125.11.76) has left this channel. *VideoTeck* ask, what about those waiting for a ppc card with 060, and wont get there ppc card because of 060 dropp out ? humm i'm one of them :-/